r1ch4rd
Apr 22, 10:39 PM
Would it make a difference if a huge portion of what you've been exposed to, regarding religion/Christianity, was fundamentally incorrect? For example, there's no such place as hellfire; nobody is going to burn forever. Everybody isn't going to heaven; people will live right here on the earth. If you learned that a huge portion of those really crazy doctrines were simply wrong, would it cause you to view Christianity/religion differently?
I was thinking about this after appleguy123 mentioned the idea of hellfire. My initial thought is that the heaven/hell idea is boring! It's so much less interesting and inspiring than what really happens to you. The processes and work and how every living being fits into the ecosystem is just amazing. I think the idea that this has evolved over millions of years is just brilliant. Science adds such wonder to the world. The majesty of god has nothing on this!
I also love the idea that anybody can challenge an idea and change the way everybody thinks. How dull would it be if we just accepted everything at face value (ie. God did it!)?
I was thinking about this after appleguy123 mentioned the idea of hellfire. My initial thought is that the heaven/hell idea is boring! It's so much less interesting and inspiring than what really happens to you. The processes and work and how every living being fits into the ecosystem is just amazing. I think the idea that this has evolved over millions of years is just brilliant. Science adds such wonder to the world. The majesty of god has nothing on this!
I also love the idea that anybody can challenge an idea and change the way everybody thinks. How dull would it be if we just accepted everything at face value (ie. God did it!)?
OutThere
Mar 13, 12:10 PM
I do feel that nuclear energy has a place in our energy production environment. That said, I regret that the problems in Japan will increase the public anxiety over nuclear power, because it will create opposition to the construction of new, safer, cleaner nuclear plants and place us in a position of having to continue using old nuclear plants which are less efficient and less safe.
Uranium mining can be an ugly process, but nuclear power sounds to me to be a pretty good option, particularly when paired with deep borehole disposal, which could nearly eliminate the ever-present waste question.
Uranium mining can be an ugly process, but nuclear power sounds to me to be a pretty good option, particularly when paired with deep borehole disposal, which could nearly eliminate the ever-present waste question.
vniow
Jul 14, 02:13 PM
Can anyone tell me the purpose of dual drive slots nowadays? I can see the use for them (and had computers with) when they were limited to one function, i.e. DVD-ROM for one and a CD-RW for the other but now that everything can happen in one drive with speed not being an issue, is it really nececcary to have two?
AppliedVisual
Oct 14, 02:55 AM
I am so glad you tried and succeeded in getting that discount. That's great. Hope you didn't suffer too much brain damage ripping on that sales rep. Wish I could have heard that. lol. :p
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
Multimedia
Oct 27, 12:37 AM
Multimedia, I was wondering if you could address the FSB issue being discussed by a few people here, namely how more and more cores using the same FSB per chip can push only so much data through that 1333 MHZ pipe, thereby making the FSB act as a bottleneck. Any thoughts?No thoughts. Hope for the best.
Macaddicttt
Mar 18, 02:35 PM
Anyone care to make this interesting? I'm taking all bets. How long until Apple fixes the problem?
HiRez
Sep 26, 03:17 PM
Man are you out of touch with reality. I have a a 2GHz DC G5 PM and a 2.5GHz Quad PM and the DC PM is a DOG for even the simplest type of stuff. You obviously have ZERO experience with a Quad Mac or you would never have written such an absurd post.No kidding. Once you've gone Quad you will NEVER want to go back to less than 4 on the floor. :DYou're wrong: I use a quad at work every day, and I have a dual (G5) at home. Unless I'm actually rendering something, I cannot detect the difference in speed. I use Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, After Effects, Final Cut Pro, and Cinema4D extensively. You people who think that a quad is helping you fly through Illustrator are full of crap, sorry. Nice delusion to have, but it's all in your head.
EDIT: I should note that if you're doing heavy multitasking (like renders in the background), then yes, it could help. I've also played WoW while doing 3D renders in the background, and the quad is pretty nice for that (although the dual does a surprisingly good job with that situation as well -- WoW is still very playable).
EDIT: I should note that if you're doing heavy multitasking (like renders in the background), then yes, it could help. I've also played WoW while doing 3D renders in the background, and the quad is pretty nice for that (although the dual does a surprisingly good job with that situation as well -- WoW is still very playable).
samdweck
Oct 7, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by arn
30% of visitors are on a Windows machine.
And if you look above... the people you attacked own Macs. They are simply being realistic.
arn
okay fine, i was wrong... sorry to whomever i offended!
30% of visitors are on a Windows machine.
And if you look above... the people you attacked own Macs. They are simply being realistic.
arn
okay fine, i was wrong... sorry to whomever i offended!
munkery
May 2, 01:02 PM
As with all malware that doesn't achieve privilege escalation via exploitation, this will not be very widespread or successful.
BTW, Windows already has far more privilege escalation vulnerabilities this year alone as Mac OS X over it's lifespan.
This type of malware will no longer work in Safari once Webkit2 is released given the scripting engine will run as a seperate process that is sandboxed (similar to Chrome). The scripting engine does not run as a separate process in IE.
Also, check out the links in my sig for more security tips. Then, PM me your credit card number (obviously, this is a joke).
BTW, Windows already has far more privilege escalation vulnerabilities this year alone as Mac OS X over it's lifespan.
This type of malware will no longer work in Safari once Webkit2 is released given the scripting engine will run as a seperate process that is sandboxed (similar to Chrome). The scripting engine does not run as a separate process in IE.
Also, check out the links in my sig for more security tips. Then, PM me your credit card number (obviously, this is a joke).
DeathChill
Apr 20, 09:28 PM
Is that a prerequisite? I have Apple battery charger.
No, of course not. I just find it interesting that someone who clearly dislikes a company and its products so much has so much free time to spend on a board for people who do enjoy said company and products.
No, of course not. I just find it interesting that someone who clearly dislikes a company and its products so much has so much free time to spend on a board for people who do enjoy said company and products.
iJohnHenry
Apr 24, 11:02 AM
Come on, Lee, you just enjoy spending your time surrounded by young, fit redheads guys. :)
Do you think they make him change in the closet? :)
Do you think they make him change in the closet? :)
eric_n_dfw
Mar 20, 08:01 PM
I wasn't talking about DRM or iTunes.Okay, but your comment was in reply to maticus' one about the opinion that "breaking the law is breaking the law". Who was, in turn, talking about iTMS and related issues. Sorry if I lost track somewhere but I assumed you were talking about the same thing.
eah2119
Apr 28, 04:52 PM
The iPad now is definitely just a mobile device. It can't do a lot of things a laptop computer can. Apple's going to have to make some changes to the iPad to give it the title "tablet PC" along with the other "tablet PCs" that think they are "tablet PCs." They will have to make it a little less like iOS and more like Mac OS X. It's just too limited. It's not a computer. It's just a larger iPod Touch.
AppliedVisual
Oct 26, 10:15 AM
I don't believe you. I use applications that want 3-4 cores EACH. And I need to run 2-4 of them simultaneously. No way is Apple going to ship dual Clovertowns if they provide no benefit. I think AppliedVisual also does not believe you. In other words:
You may be mistaken.
Looks like others have addressed it, but OSX along with the Tiger kernel updates, scales pretty good. Every bit as good as any Linux implementation and probably as good or better than WinXP.
They will ship Clovertowns as soon as they can... As I've said, it's a software issue, so know your software before you choose 8-core vs. 4-core. But there's plenty of software out their that can benefit from the 8-core system. Like I've said, Photoshop itself isn't multithreaded/multi-core capable directly, but various plug-ins are. It's also possible to spread multiple batch instances across CPU cores, so even though much of our current software is limited (or just plain multi-core ignorant), there's still ways to utilize the multiple cores within just about any production workflow.
You may be mistaken.
Looks like others have addressed it, but OSX along with the Tiger kernel updates, scales pretty good. Every bit as good as any Linux implementation and probably as good or better than WinXP.
They will ship Clovertowns as soon as they can... As I've said, it's a software issue, so know your software before you choose 8-core vs. 4-core. But there's plenty of software out their that can benefit from the 8-core system. Like I've said, Photoshop itself isn't multithreaded/multi-core capable directly, but various plug-ins are. It's also possible to spread multiple batch instances across CPU cores, so even though much of our current software is limited (or just plain multi-core ignorant), there's still ways to utilize the multiple cores within just about any production workflow.
iphonedev11
Feb 15, 03:05 PM
I can believe this, but only since the Android OS is open source. This means companies are making phones with their OS, not because its better. The iPhone is the superior phone, but Google is doing a great job at making the Android available to the masses.
unlinked
Apr 9, 03:58 PM
Why would I do that?
People who have issues with uncontracted negative questions have been known to display a wide range of linguistic disorders.
People who have issues with uncontracted negative questions have been known to display a wide range of linguistic disorders.
shawnce
Sep 26, 11:01 AM
My 2.66GHz MacPro doesn't use all four cores except on rare occassions (e.g. benchmarks, quicktime, handbrake, etc.) and even then it doesn't peg them all.
In other words your average work load doesn't contain enough concurrent work items that are CPU bound.
What I'm most interested in is offloading OpenGL to a core, the GUI to another core, etc. ...some what a nonsensical statement...
Threads of work are spread across available cores automatically. If a thread is ready to run and a core is idle then that thread will run on that core.
Aspects of the "UI" frameworks are multithread and will automatically utilize one or more cores (in some cases the frameworks increase the number of threads they use based on how many cores exist in the system). In other words the UI will already potentially use more then one core on a multi-core system.
The same can happen with OpenGL either now... say if the game developer for example utilizes one or more threads to calculate the game world state and a second thread to call into OpenGL to render that game world ...or by enabling the multithread OpenGL render (only available on Mac Pro systems at this time).
Of course that assumes that the tasks you run are CPU intensive enough to even begin to consume compute resources available to you in new systems... in the end you should measure overall throughput of the work load you want to do, not how utilized your individual core are when doing that work load.
In other words your average work load doesn't contain enough concurrent work items that are CPU bound.
What I'm most interested in is offloading OpenGL to a core, the GUI to another core, etc. ...some what a nonsensical statement...
Threads of work are spread across available cores automatically. If a thread is ready to run and a core is idle then that thread will run on that core.
Aspects of the "UI" frameworks are multithread and will automatically utilize one or more cores (in some cases the frameworks increase the number of threads they use based on how many cores exist in the system). In other words the UI will already potentially use more then one core on a multi-core system.
The same can happen with OpenGL either now... say if the game developer for example utilizes one or more threads to calculate the game world state and a second thread to call into OpenGL to render that game world ...or by enabling the multithread OpenGL render (only available on Mac Pro systems at this time).
Of course that assumes that the tasks you run are CPU intensive enough to even begin to consume compute resources available to you in new systems... in the end you should measure overall throughput of the work load you want to do, not how utilized your individual core are when doing that work load.
austin610
Feb 22, 09:44 PM
Surpass? I don't think so. Catching up.... maybe!:D
ABernardoJr
Apr 20, 08:52 PM
Also try physical keyboards, NFC, OLED screens, WiFi etc. As far as making it through the day is concerned, I can show you how to drain iPhone's battery in 6 hours. What's your point? Use LTE when you need it.
Gee, you can't make that argument about ANY other phone now can you :rolleyes:
The point is that many reasons for not using LTE for the iPhone yet involve LTE-inflicted drawbacks because of its current, early stage in its life cycle, and battery life happens to be one of those drawbacks
Gee, you can't make that argument about ANY other phone now can you :rolleyes:
The point is that many reasons for not using LTE for the iPhone yet involve LTE-inflicted drawbacks because of its current, early stage in its life cycle, and battery life happens to be one of those drawbacks
sinsin07
Apr 9, 08:46 AM
These people that are trying to claim they're a hardcore gamer, aren't. A true gamer plays games, regardless of where they are played or how they are played. A gamer plays games. There's nothing more too it than that.
Quobobo
Mar 18, 06:46 PM
It's almost like you were planning of going online to one of the illegal music sharing sites, documenting your activities, and then sending that information directly to the RIAA with your name and address with a note asking them to prosecute.
Except with one key difference: you're paying for the music. If you can buy a CD and rip it to any format you like, why should you have to have DRM on files you (legally) download? This is why I never use online download sites, I don't understand why I should pay for files that are inferiour to what I can download for free. When I pay for music, I'd rather buy a CD that doesn't have any DRM.
Except with one key difference: you're paying for the music. If you can buy a CD and rip it to any format you like, why should you have to have DRM on files you (legally) download? This is why I never use online download sites, I don't understand why I should pay for files that are inferiour to what I can download for free. When I pay for music, I'd rather buy a CD that doesn't have any DRM.
pmz
Mar 18, 09:13 AM
And stop making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.
I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.
It's a very clear line to me and many/most people who aren't so stubborn to think of the big picture.
You can only use x amount of data a month using your phone if you're on an unlimited plan. Realistically - even if you're eating as much as you can - there's a "limit" you can reach. Not because of ATT - but because of what your phone can actually access/handle. ATT's bean counters multiply/average out typical usage on a single device basis.
Now if you use that phone to supply 2,3,4 or more devices - you are using data in a way that was not agreed upon and isn't in line with what has been accounted for. If you don't understand this basic concept - there's little I can do. You can not LIKE it. But if you don't understand that there's a difference here - then you're lost.
Conversely - if someone spends money to buy a clearly finite (and smaller) chunk of data - and they want to spread it out however they want - I see little problem with that. The fact that ATT does bothers me. But it's not my problem as I don't have that plan and I don't tether using my iPhone.
This same thread/discussion has happened a million times before. Those that feel "entitled" will argue every excuse under the sun why they should be allowed and how evil ATT is. And those that can see the big picture of cause/effect will be seen by those people as shills or some other name calling word.
And I just LOVE (sarcasm) that people bring up wanting to sue or that they could go to court over this. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions.
ETA:
ATT sold you an iPhone Unlimited Data Plan
Do you understand - it was an IPHONE unlimited data plan. They didn't sell you an unlimited iPhone + laptop + desktop + ipad + other device data plan.
It's always the guilty who shout the loudest because they really have nothing to lose, do they. At best - they might get away with it - at worst, their situation remains the same.
Sounds to me like you're pissed you got caught. That's all that's happening here...
Quite simply, you're wrong, and worse you're creating fantasy. You claim tethering was not agreed upon. What was, exactly? Using safari? What about Opera?
I think not. Get your frigging facts straight before opening your mouth. AT&T screwed up when they offered unlimited data, and they're content to break the law in order to fix their mistake.
I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.
It's a very clear line to me and many/most people who aren't so stubborn to think of the big picture.
You can only use x amount of data a month using your phone if you're on an unlimited plan. Realistically - even if you're eating as much as you can - there's a "limit" you can reach. Not because of ATT - but because of what your phone can actually access/handle. ATT's bean counters multiply/average out typical usage on a single device basis.
Now if you use that phone to supply 2,3,4 or more devices - you are using data in a way that was not agreed upon and isn't in line with what has been accounted for. If you don't understand this basic concept - there's little I can do. You can not LIKE it. But if you don't understand that there's a difference here - then you're lost.
Conversely - if someone spends money to buy a clearly finite (and smaller) chunk of data - and they want to spread it out however they want - I see little problem with that. The fact that ATT does bothers me. But it's not my problem as I don't have that plan and I don't tether using my iPhone.
This same thread/discussion has happened a million times before. Those that feel "entitled" will argue every excuse under the sun why they should be allowed and how evil ATT is. And those that can see the big picture of cause/effect will be seen by those people as shills or some other name calling word.
And I just LOVE (sarcasm) that people bring up wanting to sue or that they could go to court over this. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions.
ETA:
ATT sold you an iPhone Unlimited Data Plan
Do you understand - it was an IPHONE unlimited data plan. They didn't sell you an unlimited iPhone + laptop + desktop + ipad + other device data plan.
It's always the guilty who shout the loudest because they really have nothing to lose, do they. At best - they might get away with it - at worst, their situation remains the same.
Sounds to me like you're pissed you got caught. That's all that's happening here...
Quite simply, you're wrong, and worse you're creating fantasy. You claim tethering was not agreed upon. What was, exactly? Using safari? What about Opera?
I think not. Get your frigging facts straight before opening your mouth. AT&T screwed up when they offered unlimited data, and they're content to break the law in order to fix their mistake.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 29, 02:53 PM
Ditto stem cells. :)
stem cells is not altering the original genetical code. HUGE difference
stem cells is not altering the original genetical code. HUGE difference
Octobot
Oct 30, 07:44 AM
Im definitely ready to upgrade to a new Mac Pro, top of the line..
The fact that the OctoMac could be released anytime between Black Friday and MWSF is really making me anxious..
I fear that they hold it till MW.. and I jump the gun and buy a Quad. I mean Im using a Powerbook 1.67.. and multi-tasking like crazy.. The upgrade is a must.. sometimes Im running Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator, Itunes, Azureus, After Effects all at the same time.. Obviously as soon as I render, coffee break!
The quad would still kick ass.. Octo would pave the road ahead.
Keeping my eyes peeled on any indication of the TBA Octo. :cool:
L
The fact that the OctoMac could be released anytime between Black Friday and MWSF is really making me anxious..
I fear that they hold it till MW.. and I jump the gun and buy a Quad. I mean Im using a Powerbook 1.67.. and multi-tasking like crazy.. The upgrade is a must.. sometimes Im running Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator, Itunes, Azureus, After Effects all at the same time.. Obviously as soon as I render, coffee break!
The quad would still kick ass.. Octo would pave the road ahead.
Keeping my eyes peeled on any indication of the TBA Octo. :cool:
L
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